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I watched The Hours last night which struck me as a bit obviously written by one of those guys who identify with women, but other than that a really interesting watch, and one which may just have me reaching for Mrs Dalloway again. Though I didn't like it much when I read it (I was far more impressed by The Waves and the extraordinary Between the Acts) I found myself wondering if it didn't have quite an effect on my life as a party-thrower... irritatingly, I think I gave my copy to the Oxfam Bookshop ... still, we see it often enough, I can get it back. I don't think I'll be reading The Hours* though. I think I might find it annoying. Odd thing though, I was *so sure* Virginia Woolf committed suicide in Paris by drowning herself in the Seine, had the strongest convinction of this fact, even a really distinct mental image that went with it (a sort of very blue post-Chagall symbolist/surrealist illo of Woolf floating downwards into the river, rocks spilling from the pockets of her cardigan, with Paris buildings visible above) and was sure of this despite the fact that grabbing rocks next to the Seine in Paris makes about as much sense as finding random rocks on the South Bank and that when Virginia Woolf was committing suicide, Paris was being bombed. Maybe I dreamt it. Maybe I drew it. Speaking of which ...

Where is Jeremy?I didn't have time to do a strip this week because I was on a course. I told Damian this, but he forgot, and when he came in, thought, where is Jeremy? Fortunately, I left him a message.

Other than that, I've had a bit of hard night (we had to play fruit salad and draw a life-map) so I'll just sum myself up in 5 lines, draw like
a cat
, and go to bed.

P.S. There's a Huge Owl loose in Belfast. Carrying off small deer, apparently.

Comments

( 50 worms — Feed the birds )
crazycrone
27th Feb, 2003 01:28 (UTC)
Hmm...
I seem to identify with characters of either sex, depending on all sorts of stuff. I never actually think about looking for female role models, although I do get annoyed if female characters are outstandingly wet...I once went out with a guy who was always grousing about how 'masculine' I was, and made a big thing about my identifying with Pierre in WAR AND PEACE, for God's sake, and not dopey teenage Natasha or one of the other women... I mean doesn't everyone identify with Pierre? That's the way it's writ, innit? Rather fascinating, complex topic, anyhow, but I'm not awake yet.
Love the'course' standing trio body language, btw. We used to have 'customer care' sessions with toy phones and heavily made-up, pussycat-bowed 'instructors' pretending to ring us as unpleasant members of the public...
badasstronaut
27th Feb, 2003 02:21 (UTC)
Re: Hmm...
When I was preadolescent, I wanted to be David Bowie for a while.
cleanskies
27th Feb, 2003 02:42 (UTC)
Re: Hmm...
Yeah, me too. But I *also* wanted to be Toyah, and appreciated having the choice.
Re: Hmm... - badasstronaut - 27th Feb, 2003 02:55 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hmm... - cleanskies - 27th Feb, 2003 03:54 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hmm... - badasstronaut - 27th Feb, 2003 04:44 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hmm... - cleanskies - 27th Feb, 2003 06:13 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hmm... - sparkymark - 28th Feb, 2003 07:01 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hmm... - andypop - 28th Feb, 2003 07:59 (UTC) - Expand
cleanskies
27th Feb, 2003 03:25 (UTC)
Re: Hmm...
I just don't think about role models, really -- there are people whose work I admire, and people whose lives sound fun, but aspiring to live like a role model isn't really my thing ... "Who do you want to be like when you grow up?" "Er, can't I be like me?" Plus, by my age, a lot of them were dead already, and practically none of them had very nice lives.

Being able to comfortably identify with characters of either sex (and people who are different from you in other ways) is kind of crucial for reading/going to the movies etc. (esp. for someone doing an english course) though god knows I have come across a lot of people who don't and who get bored and give up when they try reading anything outside their little box, though I shouldn't complain about them though as they're the bread-and-butter of second-hand bookshops. I've never read War and Peace. The width intimidates me, and honestly (though I've read a lot of it) the internal lives of long-dead suffering men isn't eactly my thing, any more than the internal lives of long-dead simpering girlies (though I've enjoyed both on occasion). Queers, lunatics, isolationists and freaks, that's who I like to read about. People for whom "I am a man" or "I am a woman" isn't even in their top five statements about themselves. Though, of course, go back a very short way and you can just add "women" to your weird list.

The thing about the post was that it contained some extrememly good points (pigeon-holing womens' literature is a shitty thing to do, people should be free to identify with people of the opposite sex, the gender-divide is not some vast chasm we can never emotionally cross) and from them makes a bit of a logic leap to the conclusion that we don't need female role models (even though he's just run through all the women he looks up to -- his role models) using as his argument that if *he* doesn't need role models of the same sex as him, then why should women? Hm.

Hm, I'm thinking about trainers with little bows and bells round their *necks* now. Cute (in a kind of disturbing way) but not, I think what you meant. What's a pussycat-bow?
badasstronaut
27th Feb, 2003 04:51 (UTC)
Re: Hmm...
I don't suppose because someone might view someone else as a role model it means they want to be just like them, and wouldn't lots of it be subliminal? And I suppose for some people, gender might be a relevant criterion while for others it might not. It depends how effectively you've [or caregivers on your behalf]resisted rigid gender socialisation.
badasstronaut
27th Feb, 2003 04:53 (UTC)
Re: Hmm...
Are the pussycat bows what I'd call air hostess scarves? And do those people also teach personal presentation and personal self management?
Re: Hmm... - crazycrone - 27th Feb, 2003 05:51 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hmm... - cleanskies - 27th Feb, 2003 06:33 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hmm... - badasstronaut - 27th Feb, 2003 06:48 (UTC) - Expand
I shouldn't think so - cleanskies - 27th Feb, 2003 08:33 (UTC) - Expand
Re: I shouldn't think so - badasstronaut - 28th Feb, 2003 02:03 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - crazycrone - 27th Feb, 2003 14:22 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - applez - 27th Feb, 2003 16:13 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - crazycrone - 28th Feb, 2003 00:28 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - badasstronaut - 28th Feb, 2003 01:23 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - cleanskies - 28th Feb, 2003 02:19 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - badasstronaut - 28th Feb, 2003 02:25 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - cleanskies - 28th Feb, 2003 04:58 (UTC) - Expand
Or you could just wax lyrical... - applez - 28th Feb, 2003 08:02 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - andypop - 28th Feb, 2003 08:03 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post (Bristol Waxing Table) - crazycrone - 28th Feb, 2003 11:26 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - applez - 28th Feb, 2003 08:00 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - badasstronaut - 28th Feb, 2003 01:22 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - crazycrone - 28th Feb, 2003 01:36 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - badasstronaut - 28th Feb, 2003 02:06 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - applez - 28th Feb, 2003 08:15 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - cleanskies - 28th Feb, 2003 02:22 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - applez - 28th Feb, 2003 08:10 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - andypop - 28th Feb, 2003 08:01 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Lost Post - crazycrone - 28th Feb, 2003 08:39 (UTC) - Expand
applez
27th Feb, 2003 10:24 (UTC)
Neat!
Neat Seine suicide link. About your confusion, it wouldn't perhaps be influnced by the 'Girl on the Bridge' French film from circa 2000-ish would it?

About this 'course' - is this some sort of on-the-job training improvement regime or something?

cleanskies
28th Feb, 2003 02:26 (UTC)
Re: Neat!
I've not seen the film, but just like the Thames, lots of people commit suicide in the Seine. I think the problem might actually be that my knowledge of Virginia Woolf dates back to life before google, when I couldn't just type in river suicide woolf and have it tell me which bloody river, where, when and why. There used to be more speculation then, and in the absence of facts, I make up stories.

Yeah. Springboard into Youth Work. God help me.
applez
28th Feb, 2003 08:06 (UTC)
Re: Neat!
Springboard into Youth Work?

Is that kind of like grabbing children and dropping them from a great height to see if they make the bouncy board before the pool?

The wail of tears? ;-p

Sorry, I'm in an odd mood this morning - kind of happy now that my mom is on her way back to Prague. It is a terrible thing to say, but it's true. I won't diverge into that thread though. :-)

------
applez
27th Feb, 2003 16:08 (UTC)
Owl? Owl? Roc more like!
Now having that annoying little Harry Potter swept upon and eaten by such an Owl ... now that I'd enjoy seeing. :-)

Hmmm...now I'm getting a Twin Peaks moment...

cleanskies
28th Feb, 2003 02:44 (UTC)
Re: Owl? Owl? Roc more like!
More like a Gormenghast moment. Ah! Ah! Eaten by owls!

...the owls in question are not actually as vast as all that. The BBC is being a bit hilarious, suggesting that they can carry off deer. Well, you know, maybe dwarf pygmy deer.

European Eagle Owls are my very favourite of owls.
applez
28th Feb, 2003 08:07 (UTC)
Re: Owl? Owl? Roc more like!
Ahhh, yes ... but that was a flurry of owls rather than one big f-off owl sweeping a human off his feet! :-)

----
andypop
28th Feb, 2003 08:05 (UTC)
I enjoyed The Hours (book), but I did read it before Mrs Dalloway. (Before I read Mrs Dalloway, not before Mrs Dalloway read it.)
cleanskies
28th Feb, 2003 09:13 (UTC)
wow! someone finally talking about the subject of the post!
... yeah, I think you might like The Hours (film) actually, I don't know if it came over through the qualification, but it really was good. Philip Glass soundtrack unites.
andypop
28th Feb, 2003 09:23 (UTC)
Re: wow! someone finally talking about the subject of the post!
Well, I'm "one of those guys who identify with women", so probably!

Or maybe, "one of those guys who fails to identify with other men"...
( 50 worms — Feed the birds )